Thu, 17 Sep 1998 07:59:40 EDT - from Susan

We've got a foster home (Anne at RAT2220@xxxxx) in Bunnell, FL (just north of Daytona), but like my home, it has to be very temporary. Time for some offers of permanent homes ~ please.
Thanks!
Susan

Thu, 17 Sep 1998 20:28:47 EDT - from Susan

Anne (RAT2220@xxxxx) and her husband, Tod, have graciously agreed to foster Harley, the Deltona dog (4 yr. old neutered male that Kathleen advised me about). They are meeting Harley's current owner on Saturday to take possession. Anne has several minpins (females) herself so, Iike me, she's looking for a quick placement.

Liz, at your earliest convenience, please check on the GA people. If anyone else knows of a home, please advise. We don't want Harley to overstay his welcome ;)

Thanks everyone, and a special thanks to Anne & Tod!

Susan & the girls

Sat, 19 Sep 1998 17:22:59 EDT - from Anne

Tod and I picked up Harley this morning. I had the man sign a release that I typed up using a sample that Kathleen sent me. I managed to get the imps logo with Lister's picture printed on the top of it.

Bob and Harley were waiting for us when we pulled up to Petsmart. Harley is fearful with strangers. When Tod went to pick him up he did bite, but Tod did not let this deter him and Harley did warm up to him fairly quickly. Bob did admit to me that his wife is the one that did not want the dogs but he had made a compromise with her so he could keep the other dog who is 8 and whom he had raised from a pup. Harley was born to a breeder in Mo. who then transferred him to Sundowner,who sent him to Pet Pizazz a pet store and then to the first owner whose son abused him with a baseball bat. Bob was the second owner and I do think he felt badly about having to give him up. He did pay for me to take Harley to the vet, which we did after running into Petsmart for some supplies. I had Bob make out the check to the vet's office and I guestimated it at about $60. Bob wrote the check for $70. I now have a credit at my vet's office for $11.05.(you have no idea how strange that feels) I will of course donate that to the next IMPS worthy project if it is not spent on Harley.

Harley does not like to be picked up and has not been well socialized but in my opinion he is not a vicious dog. He may however take some patience and an experienced dog owner. I wouldn't place him in a home with small children older ones would probably be ok if they are good with small dogs. He certainly liked my daughter when she sneaked him a small bit of her roast beef sandwich at lunch today. Bob said he was an active dog but he's pretty much been a couch potato since we brought him home. The shots maybe??? He did bare his teeth to My Belle the queen and Alpha bitch around here. She definitely provoked him. I have a couple leads here locally on placement. The vet tech knows someone who has been looking for a min pin and wants a rescue but my personal choice is the vet I took him to today is interested. He is looking for a companion dog to his rescue pomeranian but wants a report on how he does in the home with things like house boken, furniture chewing etc. I'm to call him next week. You should have seen him with Harley. Harley did not even try to snap at him he was so good with him. I think it would be the perfect home for him to live out his years in.

Anne and the min pin pack

Wed, 23 Sep 1998 07:22:25 EDT - from Anne and the min pin pack and Harley

Susan.

Harley is not your average min pin. He can be loving and sweet with his little nubbin going a hundred miles an hour or he can be very fearful and shaking and can snap at a person that tries to pick him up. It doesn't seem to bother my husband when he does that but I am more hesitant. I'm not really the right person to be fostering, training and evaluating this dog. I have personally been scared of agressive dogs since I was a kid. Harley does not seem to be agressive with my dogs. Mostly he just tries to igmore them. He has made some small overtures to My Serena who is my most submisse and fearful dog(former puppy mill bitch). My Missy who is my ultimate puppy(must I grow up Mom) has tried to get Harley to play but he hasn't responded yet. I did discover this morning that he knows how to play with a nerf tennis ball, but just by himself.

I talked with a woman yesterday who is a trainer for the obedience club in Daytona Beach. She did not give me much hope that a dog like Harley can be rehabilitated without 2 to 3 years of work and she recommended euthanasia. I am just at a loss as what to do. I have been trying to get to talk to Kathleen but she and I keep missing each other. I do think she would be more qualified to evaluate this dog than I am. But as you can see I am hesitant to contact anyone about adopting Harley until I feel that He is more reliable. There are so many dogs without temperment problems out there that need placement. Is it fair to spend alot of time effort and money on one like Harley? I really need someone qualified to evaluate him. I have to go now. I am in tears over this

Anne and the min pin pack and Harley

Wed, 23 Sep 1998 09:04 -0500 - from Liz

I went through this with Spike, the first min pin I fostered. Spike wasn't fearful though, he'd just suddenly attack and he wouldn't release the bite or he would fight when he was taken away - growl, snarl, snap, etc.. During his last incident, he bit my son in the ankle, and when I went to grab him and put him away he bit my arms, swiveled around and bit me in the face. I had called Joan Krumm (sp?) a breeder in Illinois and explained his situation (1 yr neutered male, 18 inches tall, 22 lbs, rapidly escalating episodes of aggression towards people and dogs, fence and door aggression, four weeks work on rehab with an experienced trainer, etc.), and she recommended euthanasia, stating that placing him would be unethical with my knowledge of his behavior problems and that he was not a good example of the miniature pinscher in temperament, therefore giving a bad impression of the breed. She also stated that I would be personally liable through my homeowners insurance should I place him and a bite incident occur in the new home, despite contract language.

We had decided to keep him and work on his problems ourselves when he bit my seven year old son - my son was sitting in a chair reading and Spike came across the room and nailed him in the ankle. My children have been brought up around dogs, had never teased Spike, and had been very careful not to stress him out with unwanted attention. At that point, I decided to euthanize him, I couldn't take a chance on him biting my four year old, killing one of our elderly cats, or getting himself killed in self defense if he bit one of the larger dogs in the face.

It was a very traumatic decision, Spike did have his moments when he could be very loving, and our other dogs got along well with him despite his aggressive behavior, but his unpredictable temperament was unsafe in a house, and would have become worse in a kennel situation.

I wish I could offer more assurances, but I'm too far away from the situation to be really helpful. I will try to contact Susan Goldman and see if she knows of an MPCA member in the area who can help out with an evaluation, or take the dog in themselves. I won't be able to get in touch with her till later today though.

Liz

Sat, 26 Sep 1998 08:32:00 EDT - from Kathleen, via Susan

We need a home for Harley.

Susan

<<Hi Susan,
Just a quick note to let you know I checked Harley out and he is not an aggressive dog - he certainly does not need to be put down! He is actually real affectionate and seems starved for affection. I was doing everything I could to the little guy to try to piss him off enough to go for me and he didn't. I held him like a baby and kissed his face. I had my hands in his ears, mouth and all over - not a snap. It is easy to tell he is very protective, is already bonding with and protecting his foster mom. He was real good with my very dominant male minpin, Ramirez, that I took along to get his assessment. I do not think he needs to go where there are children and he does need to go where someone has minpin experience. He is also real pretty - horrible ears, though. We need someone to come through for this guy soon - foster mom, Anne, can only hold on to him for a little while. She is still a little scared of him, too. When he has snapped at them, it was when he was cornered, or under the bed, or asleep on the couch. All understandable. I will admit it was hard for me to not just go ahead and take him - I know I could have him rehabbed in no time, but I also knew I would be divorced if my husband came home and there was a #13 here!

Glad the hurricane has missed both of us:-)

May The Font Be With You,
Scottie Prince
Chyron Operator>>

Sat, 26 Sep 1998 08:39:10 EDT - from Susan

I forwarded a post from Kathleen Prince re: her assessment of Harley. You have to scroll down to see it.
We need a home for this dog. He's in the Daytona,FL area with Anne (RAT2220@xxxxxx), his foster mom. Per Kathleen, he should have a minpin savvy home without young children, but she thinks he's just your typical minpin starved for affection. We know those, don't we? Liz, I think that the two that you asked had kids, didn't they? I'll check with Larry Walters (Udope) to see if he's still interested.
Susan

Wed, 30 Sep 1998 18:16:56 EDT - from Anne and the min pin pack and Harley

I called one of my vets today to see if he was still interested in taking Harley. Mainly he ws interested in if Harley was house trained. He just got through training his little pom that was a puppy mill rescue. We talked for a while about Harley and I tried to be as positive as posible while still being honest that this is a fearful dog that needs time, attention, and some training. Doc has no small children, all his kids are in college and the longest his furkids would be left alone is from 9 to 3. Well Doc has agreed to give it a try. he says he should be able to tell in a few weeks time whether or not Harley will fit in his household. He is willing to work on the socialization and of course Harley would have the best vetrinary care. Work schedules won''t permit us to get together until Saturday. I'll bring Harley to his office at noon when he is done with office hours. Everyone please say a prayer that this works out. It could be the perfect home for a little guy who got a bad start in life. Of course the deal is that I get Harley back if it doesn't.

Now if Harley will just let me give him a bath so he will look and smell pretty.

Anne and the min pin pack and Harley

Mon, 5 Oct 1998 21:16:33 -0400 - from Kathleen

Hi Everyone,
I am posting this for Anne Rothenberg who has been fostering Harley. She has her computer at the shop for repairs, lightning strike. Harley was adopted this past Saturday by Anne's veterinarian! She talked to him today and all seems to be going well with them. He has grown children who are in college and a rescue pomeranian from a local puppy mill shutdown. He just has to let Harley get used to him and his new home and I think it will be fine - Harley really is a nice dog! Anne is now feeling the loss associated with fostering and then giving the responsibility of that life to someone else. She bonded pretty tight with the boy and is a little sad. She knows she could not keep him, but it is still tough.

Anne did a good job with this rescue and jumped in there to take him when asked. I can no longer bring fosters home, so a person like her is a blessing. She has offered to help again after the beginning of the year. I sure wish a list like this would have existed 6 years ago when I began minpin rescue here in Orlando. Some things could have gone smoother. My husband and I rehabilitated and rehomed nearly 70 minpins in that time and found some really great homes, but it sure wasn't easy! I've officially stated I no longer do dog rescue but somehow I spent 2 hours this evening with some friends trying to get a feral mom dog and her pups.Couldn't get close, unfortunately. We've been trying since friday, got 2 pups out of 6. Mom and Dad are completely feral. It's real frustrating. They're not even minpins! I am nuts!

Take care and treasure those minpins:-)

Kathleen Prince
Pookie Bros. Pet Sitting
Longwood, FL

Tue, 13 Oct 1998 15:12:47 -0400 - from Kathleen, via Susan

Hi Susan,
I tried to post this to the list but it came back to me. Can you forward it please?
***
Got a message from Anne in Bunnell, FL last night that she was on her way to go pick Harley up. He's the 5 yr. B/R male given up a couple months ago due to aggression or whatever their excuse was. Anyway, apparently things have not worked out w/the veterinarian that took him. I have no idea what happened. He did not have a fenced yard and this could have been (probably was) the problem. I spent some time w/Harley and Anne and this is a NICE DOG!!! He needs a MINPIN EXPERIENCED HOME! Any takers? Contact Anne directly, she cannot foster him for very long, 904-437-2914.

Thanks!

Kathleen Prince
Pookie Bros. Pet Sitting
Longwood, FL

Tue, 13 Oct 1998 19:35:21 EDT - from Susan

We're probably going to need some help here with Harley. Petie sent me info on some people in Tampa, who I've e-mailed. I also provided that info to Kathleen (pookiebros@xxxxxx) and Anne (RAT2220@xxxxxx), his foster mom. If we don't get a home for him soon, I'm afraid of the alternatives. I can't foster a dog for any length of time ~ a week or two is my max (especially now since "season" is approaching and all my neighbors are returning ~ 4 dogs is against the by-laws in this development). Anne is expecting her relatives next month, so he's GOT to be gone by then. Kathleen, an experienced minpin rescue person, is convinced that Harley is a GOOD DOG. He's only 5 years old and deserves a shot at a decent life. If anyone knows anyone out there willing to give this little guy a chance, PLEASE advise. Anne, THANK YOU for what you've done for Harley so far. You're terrific!! Kathleen, as always, thank you!
Susan

Tue, 13 Oct 1998 20:18:12 -04000 - from Petie

It looks like there are still a number of names on the IMPS list:
IL -- Payne: Owns home, fenced yard, no current pets. No children.
GA -- Charles: Currently owns young spitz. No children. Owns home with acreage, not yet fenced.
WI -- Teresa: Currently owns rescued female rottweiler, looking for male companion/playmate. No children. Owns home with fenced yard.

I do think we have to know what the VET said before we place him.....I mean we aren't talking about an inexperienced person, and Kathleen did not live with him she just saw him for one afternoon.....Anne what did he say?
Petie

Tue, 13 Oct 1998 19:39:35 PDT - from Mike & Beverly Higgins

Wanted to say Hi to everyone. I'm new to the minpin mailing list, Wanted to introduce myself and my dogs. My wife, Beverly, and I have two minpins, Lacie and Jade, female black&rust, litter mates, 7 months old, along with a Yorkie, Gidget, and a cocker spaniel, Ginger. We live in Goose Creek, SC, which is just outside of Charleston. I've been reading the mail from the list for the last couple of days, so glad to see that everyone else enjoys their minpins as much as we do.

Wanted some additional information on the two minpins in Florida that needed new homes, Buster and Harley. Since we've gotten our minpins, everyone else in the family now wants one, so we might be able to find homes for one or both. Actually, nearly everyone one we know who has met Lacie and Jade wants a minpin now.

Mike & Beverly Higgins

Wed, 14 Oct 1998 07:52:29 EDT - from Susan

Please contact PatPhil1 re: Buster (currently owned by Cperez06@xxxxxx) and RAT2220@xxxxxx (Anne, foster mom) and/or Kathleen at pookiebros@xxxxxx re: Harley.

Thank you!
Susan & the girls